Girls in Cub Scouting

innovideas

-78

In Progress

I am a Cubmaster in Branson, Missouri. I have been involved in Cub Scouts for many years and have had several little girls of older Cub Scouts that would love to be in Cub Scouts if given the privilege and opportunity. Girls can be in Venturing and Exploring when they reach the age of 14. Why can't they be allowed to join Cub Scouts? We would not have to change the program. I can not count the number of little girls that wanted to be in Girl Scouts but could not due to not having a leader. I know of several little girls that joined Girl Scouts but only stayed a very short time due to not doing the activities that their older Cub Scout brothers participated in. I wish you would consider letting girls in Cub Scouts. I would be happy to be the pilot Cub Scout pack to let Girls in Cub Scouts.

Idea # 59Cub Scouting,

Moderator Comments

7/29/09

From: Janice Downey, Innovation Coordinator

Thank you for your comments. You have some valid points. We appreciate your suggestion and may consider it at the appropriate time.

Comments

jreimers 1 year ago

why not add an LFL group paired with the CS pack?

jeburke 1 year ago

I think a girls' program would be a great idea, but the genders need to grow and develop in "like groups" at this stage of development. Girls and boys need to be held seperately. Can the American Heritage Girls become one of Scouting's programs? Sort of a "Girl Cub Scouts."

egonzale 1 year ago

I totally agree to allow girls in our program. It's good for buisness and the last I heard we were in the buisness of growth. If we moved to this direction we'd grow by probably about 2 million traditional. That's a lot of membership, membership fees, uniform sales, product sales, and family fos.

pat.friedrich 1 year ago

Most of the rest of the world has co-ed programs that work just fine. We need to catch up and move beyond the 1950's mentality and allow girls into the program.

wdunbar 1 year ago

If I were in the Chief’s Shoes I would propose to the National Executive Board for consideration the following. A Co-ed Program for K, 1, 2, & 3 graders at the 4th grade a boy or girl would go into a single gender programs for boys it would be Webelos and a similar for girls. After 18 months a boy would cross into a Boy Scout Troop just like they do today and the young lady would cross over into a unit similar to a Boy Scout Troop just for girls. When a young person reaches the end of their 8th grade year they would reunite with there opposite gender counterparts in a Venture Crew just like today.

jsolis 1 year ago

I have units with girl cub scouts. They just don't get any insurance coverage (and I can't use them as a membership stat).

mgriffin 1 year ago

I think we need to be careful here too. If we do make changes, we need to do it right - in the true best interests of youth development.

It is important to understand that boys' brains and bodies mature much more slowly than girls'. Further, because research indicates that boys’ brains are hard-wired to learn in different ways, attempts to teach in a single way too often means that boys switch off from learning at an early age and never reengage.

The challenge of teaching (and learning) the things that we teach to both boys and girls of Cub Scout age is not as simple as just adding girls to a den.

We have been successful - not just in the lives of the current members, but also as they grow into adults - because over the generations we have met the needs of youth that provide for long-term success.

By the way, take a look at the membership in countries that have gone co-ed in the younger-age programs - and at Camp Fire. I believe that you will find that their numbers dropped significantly when girls, or boys in the case of Camp Fire, were included.

alange 1 year ago

Canada tried this thinking that their membership would almost double. The Scouts in Canada LOST half of its male members after they brought in this idea. Boys want to be with boys at this age. Why go against this?

jshearou 1 year ago

It would be nice if there were an organization similiar to the Boy Scouts of America, only designed to meet the needs of young women. They could have a format like our, I don't even see why they could not incluce themselves in the family of scouting, they could call it the Girl Scouts. I think this idea could really take off. Down the line they could start selling cookies instead of popcorn. Who knows it might be a financial blessing for them and fuel their success.

Dustin Shaver 1 year ago

I agree that we need girls programs for each grade level that we have boys' programs. However, I believe they ought to be separate programs. Girls and boys have plenty of opportunity to be in co-ed situations. It is important that we allow a place for them to be boys and girls separately.

I would be in favor of an all girls program that is more like Cub Scouts and significantly different from Brownies/Girl Scouts.

agast 1 year ago

Cub Scout program is designed specifically for boys. However, I agree that girls are left without an opportunity for a similar pursuit, built on the same foundation of the BSA. I would suggest an alternative: create a side-by-side program specifically for girls--another member of a full family of Scouting! Some program elements can be completed together-Blue & Gold Banquet, crossover, etc., while gender-specific activities are done separate.
Think about the opportunity to serve girls in elementary and middle school with a quality program as we do for boys! Programs can be designed side-by-side until 14-years old where they merge for Venturing.

John Oneil 1 year ago

It is not the fault of BSA that the Girl Scouts are not offering a competitive, interesting program to engage young girls. BSA is BOY scouts of America. I don't want to sound "old school" but the entire point of our program to develop young boys into strong young men. There are plenty of programs for young girls to participate in besides ours.

john.clarkson 1 year ago

Not a good idea. For one, Cub Scouting provides the "tribe" experience boys need at this age. Boys and girls are socialized very differently throughout childhood, and we have a great program for the age when their ways relating finally begin to merge, in late adolescence (Venturing). It is a shame that GSUSA does not provide a more vigorous program for girls, but we'd lose one of the best reasons for our existence if we took this step.

rickwill 11 months ago

The developmental needs of girls are different than that of boys in the 6-12 age group.

Both the Girl Scout and Boy Scout age appropriate programs do a good job of meeting the specific needs of those youth.

Girl Scout units attract and hold members for the same reasons as Cub Scout packs the quality of the unit leadership.

Putting programs together is a short cut that will not strengthen the program for girls. In fact,it would probably lower the Cub Scout program to the level of the Girl Scout program.

Want to help? Use the skills you have learned in Cub Scouting and help the Girl Scouts recruit and train quality leadership to serve the girls in your area.

pat.friedrich 11 months ago

If we take the above comment to its logical conclusion, all public schools would be segregated into boys and girls schools. We all know that boys an girls are different and learn at different rates. The rest of the world has learned that the two sexes can co-exist in a Scouting setting, what's wrong with the US? And I really don't want to hear about the drop in Cub Scouts in other countries when girls were introduced, as the problem is here also, with just boys in the program. The drop in program numbers had nothing to do with the change and everything to do with what was already mentioned, quality leaders willing to take the time to help. As a pilot, why not let units take girls if they want? Frankly, it's already happening with some groups letting sisters take part. They just do it "under the table". What does it hurt to try?

mgriffin 11 months ago

I believe that, as we should with anything, we need to do the research on something rather that react to what “we think”. If adding girls will enhance our program, so be it. But if all it will do is temporarily add a few members...

If you are not aware, Rickwill was the director of Cub Scouting, he knows the reasons why we do what we do.

I was associate director of Cub Scouting in the 90's (before Rick was there) and I had the opportunity to do extensive research, and was able to work with experts in education and child development. I also reviewed the impact of allowing girls in the Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs in nations that had cultures similar to ours (Europe and Canada primarily).

Nearly every, non-biased, study into single-sex education has shown that education and behavior is improved (especially among boys) in single-sex classrooms. For the most part, we have co-ed schools in the US because of convenience, funding issues, and politics - not pure education. So yes, making the change to single-sex schools would be the logical conclusion if we were only concerned about educating our youth, but that is not practical in our society. On the other hand, if the things that we are trying to teach in the BSA are best taught in an all-boy environment, and boys of Cub Scout and Boy Scout age prefer to be with other boys, why should we change? Unless of course those things do not matter any more. I believe that there are a lot of other things we need to change to fix our program.

While I agree that there are other issues, Scouting has suffered when it has gone co-ed in other nations. In the UK there were 656,004 members of the Scout Association in 1990. They included girls in 1991, and by 1997 they were down to 469,000 youth. In 2007, the last report, they are down to 365,685. (Only 44,764 of these are female). Girl Guides in the UK report a membership of 510,000 girls.

In Scouts Canada, the membership in 1990 was 265,313. They added girls in 1992. Today their membership is 97,395. Girl Guides of Canada report 116,206 members.

So much for a potential mass-exodus from the GSUSA or a significant growth in our membership.

So since 1990 the UK has dropped 44%, Canada has dropped 63%, and we have lost 33% (and that includes moving nearly one million of our Explorers and in-school Scouting programs to LFL in 1991.) And they added girls.

When we looked at the issue in the 90's we found that boys of that age wanted to be with boys, and the parents of most girls of that age did not want them to go camping with boys.

I hope we will do what really is best for our youth, not what we just think is best.

Judy Sizemore 11 months ago

Status Changed from Active to Complete.

egonzale 11 months ago

We are certainly gonna have different viewpoints from differnt professional Scouters, because of the diversity of the cultures and communities that we represent. My area is a border community in deep South Texas. I've got a lot of young generation X and Y parents that all use cells phones and use texting rather then emailing. They use the fast tracks rather then the program helps. They sell popcorn, give to FOS, and order a lot of stuff online rather then go to the Scout Shop. They get really frustated with our program, because they want a "one stop shop." Many of them have girls in the family and would rather join the BSA then another Scouting program. They don't care about our membership standards, because they're "too busy," however, then want their kids to earn advancement and "win, win, win." They want it quick, simple, and cheap, but they are also highly competative. They don't want excuses, they want results. Many of the parents that I come across with just want the organization to just make it happen or they'll join another program that will. I never thought I would see such a change in society. The old Leave it to Beaver Days are gone. We need to take girls in Scouting in the BSA seriously or we're gonna regret it in the future when some other organization beats us to the punch. I think that our national board of directors, which are successsful business people would certainly appreciate and entertain a growth potential of another 2 million traditional youth members. We would have stronger units, stronger districts, stronger councils, etc. The positive results would not only include strong positive public relations about the BSA supporting American families, but the financial gains would be awesome.

Judy Sizemore 8 months ago

Status Changed from Complete to In Progress.

John Whitford 4 months ago

In recent years I have had volunteers approach me and ask how they could involve whole families in their programs. By whole families I refer to siblings of the female persuasion. In fact, several volunteers have told me that they have allowed girls to fully participate, even going as far as to present badges.

A girl can join our program at the age of 14. Why not at 13 or 11 or 9? Most Scouting programs around the world are co-ed. Families today are far more pressed for time and many are seeking ‘family friendly’ programs and activities.

Girls have been a part of the traditional program since the 60’s when the old ‘green shirt’ Exploring program went co-ed. Not so long ago, women were not able to hold certain leadership offices. Now those positions are open to all. Not so long ago, no women were in Woodbadge or the Order of the Arrow... now they have access and membership in both.

Times change... maybe we need to consider this step... carefully.... I know it is difficult, controversial and to some, radical but so was having female Scoutmasters. If the outcome is that boys need to have boy things to do with boys, so be it... If the outcome is a ‘voluntary’ co-ed option, so be that... we have all male and all female Venturing Crews and that works... it is an option...

mgriffin 4 months ago

See my notes above. Going co-ed has nearly wiped out programs in other parts of the world, and is contrary to most current "best scenario" child development theory.

pat.friedrich 4 months ago

I don't know what countries you have visited but I can tell you from going to International Jamborees and speaking with and seeing Scouts from many countries in action that the program was NOT "nearly wiped out" in many parts of the world. Get real and get modern. I certainly don't know what you are so afraid of by letting people have a choice.

mgriffin 4 months ago

Pat, I am not afraid of anything other than seeing the BSA take the road that has failed in other nations, and what has been proven to not be in the best interests of boys developmentally.

I will repeat what I posted earlier and leave it to others to decide:

I believe that, as we should with anything, we need to do the research on something rather that react to what “we think”. If adding girls will enhance our program, so be it. But if all it will do is temporarily add a few members...

Nearly every, non-biased, study into single-sex education has shown that education and behavior is improved (especially among boys) in single-sex classrooms. For the most part, we have co-ed schools in the US because of convenience, funding issues, and politics - not pure education. Making the change to a single-sex schools would be the logical conclusion if we were only concerned about educating our youth, but that is not practical in our society.

If the things that we are trying to teach in the BSA are best taught in an all-boy environment, and research tells us that boys of Cub Scout and Boy Scout age prefer to be with other boys, why should we change? Unless of course those things do not matter any more.

I believe that there are a lot of other things we need to change to fix our program.

I have had the opportunity to study and review the impact of allowing girls in the Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs in nations that had cultures similar to ours (Europe and Canada primarily.) While I agree that there are other issues, Scouting has suffered when it has gone co-ed in other nations.

In the UK there were 656,004 members of the Scout Association in 1990. They included girls in 1991, and by 1997 they were down to 469,000 youth. In 2007, the last report I have, they are down to 365,685. (Only 44,764 of these are female). Girl Guides in the UK report a current membership of 510,000 girls.

In Scouts Canada, the membership in 1990 was 265,313. They added girls in 1992. Today their youth membership is 97,395. Girl Guides of Canada report 116,206 members.

So, since 1990 the UK has dropped 44%, Canada has dropped 63%, and we have lost 33%. But our loss includes moving nearly one million of our Explorers and in-school Scouting programs to LFL in 1991. And they just added girls.

pat.friedrich 4 months ago

Statistics do not necessarily prove anything taken out of context, so while you can say that such and such dropped so many percent, we must look beyond the numbers to what was happening at the time and the conditions that made those numbers. There could be any number of reasons for a drop in membership, not attributable to allwoing girls to join. I've been to scouting events in Scotland and they have no problem with girls in their organization and certainly do not attribute the drop in membership to allowing girls in the group. The event also has Scouts from 18 other countries and in talking with the youth and their leaders, not one has an issue with girls being in the organization. In the case of Scouting in the UK, they have left it up to each individual group as to whether or not to take girls in the unit. Given that this is such a contentious issue in the United States, it would seem that we could leave it up to each unit and Council to make up their own mind. If people want an all boys group, good they can join one, but if people want a mixture of girls and boys they should have the opportunity to make that choice. At the risk of my head, let me say it again, the BSA really needs to join the 21st century.

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