Adjust the ages of Cub Scouts

mbarbern

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I know I am not the only genious out there with this idea, but I'll post it! Each year we get tons of calls from Kindergarten parents wanting to sign their boys up. Lets make the adjustment and accept them. Maybe they could do a twice a month program like Tigers started out to be? We have boys wanted to join and the sooner we get them and their parents in the better.
WEBELOS, the 2nd year program does not work, the kids are bored and we lose a ton of them at recharter. Make boys BOY SCOUTS as soon as they enter grade 5. Yes some Scoutmasters will rumble, but we lose far too many 2nd year Webelos.

Idea # 46Cub Scouting, cub, scout, ages/2nd, year, webelos, cub scout ages/2nd year webelos

Moderator Comments

11/3/08
Thank you for your idea! We currently have a pilot program going on in a Georgia council in which this very idea is being tested. We will check back with you at a later date to let you know the results of this pilot program.

Comments

cnimer 1 year ago

I do agree with this to a degree, at least the kidergartner part. With the Webelos though, it is a matter of significantly changing the requirements to help them begin taking on a leadership role to prepare them for boy scouts, maybe requiring them to serve for three months as a denner in one of the younger groups, or perhaps planning their own program to a degree.

Ed Grune 1 year ago

I don't think that 5th graders mesh as well with the older boys, I do think the denner idea of the other poster is good stuff though.

egonzale 1 year ago

I agree that we should allow kinder kids to join. I also think that we should allow cub scout buddies to join both boys and girls. Cub Scout buddies attend meetings and participate in cub activities anyway. Supply even has a cap and t-shirt for them. They need to be included in our insurance also.

alange 1 year ago

If any of you have been a den leader before, it is very difficult to get even the 7 year olds to pay attention long enough to hold a den meeting. Why would we want to bring 6 year olds into the equation like that? What would their program look like? Not fulfilling is what. Too much time would be spent on activities that are not related to Scouting. Also, one of the reasons we have issue keeping kids into Scouts after Webelos is that after 5 years they become burnt out. Why make a sixth year?

mbarbern 1 year ago

So you are saying there is nothing you can do with a den of 6 year olds? Can't they explore the outdoors? Learn about the flag? Learn team work in games? Do crafts? Yes, they would take away from a Webelos den meeting, but my suggestion was they are their own den. I also suggested we do away with the 2nd year Webelos program and move 5th grade right into Boy Scouts. The drop rate of 2nd year Webelos is crimminal and we need to fix that program.

chummel 1 year ago

A friend of mine has been a kindergarten teacher for 20+ years. She told me that every year the boys get upset when the Girl Scout Daisies gather in one corner for their "meeting" or activity. Why can't there be a pre-Cub Scout level for kindergarten/5-year-old boys? Actually, that's what I thought Tiger Cubs was until I started working for the council.

jeyoung 1 year ago

Adding kindergardeners is a great idea. I have a number of volunteers that have boys and girls and the girls can join Daisies at that age. If they can swing it, why not us?

The Idea for the Webelos is one I strongly disagree with. The boys 'getting bored" during 2nd year Webelos is a function of the leaders exicuting the program- not the program itself. The biggest problem I see is leaders jumping ahead and letting boys work on activities before they should. For those boys that are really hard chargers and should move up, that is why we allow 10 1/2 year olds to move up with the Arrow of light.

mgriffin 1 year ago

I think we need to be careful here. If we do make changes, we need to do it right - in the true best interests of the development of a boy and not just what “seems” okay. We also need to do things that will not have a negative impact on the future of our older boy programs.

I believe that the over-structuring of Tiger Cubs is a result of reacting to what we “think” is right, or what parents like, as opposed to what research tells us is really best for boys. And I am convinced that has had a negative impact on 5th grade Webelos. Five years of Cub Scouting without significant variety is too much for that age child and they move on to other things. What do we do with six? If we lower the Boy Scout age what impact will that have on retaining older Scouts? Are we ready for 11 year old Eagle Scouts and an early departure from Boy Scouting?

Research is telling us that we are pushing kids into formal, structured educational activities too early. It is telling us that this is a major factor in why we do less well in international tests. For example Finland, where formal schooling does not start until the age of 7, scores at or near the very top of these tests. This research has also shown that boys, whose brains mature much more slowly than girls’, suffer the most from the early start to schooling and structure. They are not prepared for the structure. (This is also a factor why it may be okay for Girl Scout programs to start earlier, but not necessarily okay for us.)

In 2007 the American Academy of Pediatrics said: “This trend may have implications for the social and emotional development of children and adolescents. In addition, many after-school child care programs prioritize an extension of academics and homework completion over organized play, free play, and physical activity for some children, this hurried lifestyle is a source of stress and anxiety and may even contribute to depression.”

Again, if we are really concerned about making a real, long-term positive impact on a boy, let’s be careful.

mbarbern 1 year ago

11 year old Eagle Scouts? Not sure how my idea of allowing a new fifth grader be a Boy Scout would create 11 year old Eagle Scouts! We already have 5 years of Cub scouting: Tigers, Wolfs,(or...woofs depending on where you live!) Bear, Webelos 1 and 2. I am just suggesting we move the 2nd year webelos to Boy Scouts and create a new fun program for kindergarten boys. The 5th grade Boy Scouts could be a "patrol" and transition into a troop with the existing adult leadership, keeping boys and leaders in Scouting longer.

pcowan 1 year ago

I agree with mgriffin

garry.knapp 1 year ago

Maybe it's time to move to a 3 or 4 phase program like the UK. 5-8 Year olds would be Cubs 9-10 1/2 year olds would be webelos and could or would attend both Pack and Troop functions. 10 1/2 - 14 would be Boy Scouts. 14- 20 would be Venturing.
I think a key to getting things working a bot better is finding a better place for the Webelos.

kbryan 1 year ago

Allowing the Kindergarten boys to join would give them an introduction to the Scouting program. In another comment, the remark was made that we're starting them in a structured academic environment too early. Why not gear the K program to fun and play. Scouting is supposed to be a game with a purpose. For the K boys, the purpose is just to get out and have fun while learning rules and how to play well with others. Include the oath and law, recognize them with advancements, but set the requirements at a K level.

The Webelos II's should only be there for 1/2 a year before bridging in February at the Blue and Gold banquets. The district I serve has a great transition rate because we call all of the Webelos IIs that didn't bridge over. We ask the ones leaving why they are leaving, invite them to see a Troop (many never made it to that patrol meeting) and they join up. Or they learn that they can join a troop that doesn't meet on the same night that their sport does, or they can come back when that sport is no longer in season. Train the leaders, Pack and Troop, and get your commissioners on board to help the transition.

mgriffin 1 year ago

If we have to, that would be the way to go (kbryan's kindergarten suggestion) as long as we stick with that idea. Tiger Cubs was originally set up that way and we quickly turned it into just another year of Cub Scouting. If (when) we allow 5 year olds to join we need to avoid the temptation to push them too far too fast.

John Oneil 10 months ago

Allowing in Kindergarten boys can be good so long as we have a competent system for them to participate in. Allowing Webelos II boys to be added into Boy Scouts shouldn't be done. The boys are still in elementary school.

David Taylor 9 months ago

I do feel that a kindergarten program would be benefecial. I have people ask me all of the time why there child can not start in kindergarten. It would take some careful planning, but the BSA is known for their quality program.

As far as the "2nd Year" Webelos being "discontinued", I disagree. My Pack has crossed over 95+% of these boys into a troop. It is up to the trained leadership to keep the well designed program running smoothly and help keep it interesting to the scouts. What we do is have the 5th graders help to plan out the last 6-8 months of the program. Remember this is the time that they should be doing troop visits, outing with troops, and really getting into preparing for obtaining their Arrow of Light award and starting on the next part of their journey in Boy Scouts.

Daren McClellan 9 months ago

As for the Scoutmasters will rumble:
When I was in Cub Scouts when we finished 4th grade we were Boy Scouts. That is how both program USED to run. And it worked!

Judy Sizemore 8 months ago

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Judy Sizemore 8 months ago

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Judy Sizemore 5 months ago

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